Carlos Doughty 0:07 Welcome everybody joining us today I'm joined by the amazing, anne Handley, Ann welcome
Ann Handley 0:21 Oh my god, it's so great to be here. Thank you for having me.
Carlos Doughty 0:25 So I want to start by just saying a very, very, very big thank you to our sponsors on24. Without them, it's not possible for us to run these amazing events, and speak to amazing people. And so thank you to them, And do support us by supporting. Right, you may notice today we've got a fantastic interactive platform for you. So before we get going have a little poke around, check out some of the interactive features we've got. Yes, you can see our fantastic 90 of retro, you can click around and access some of our core playlists. Also a little bit more about some links to grab a book on Amazon, or the whole thing that we won today, as well as some other great content use takeaway. Now, before we jump in and chat more about and I've got a lot to say about her amazing, fantastic bio. And I just want to remind everybody that there is an opportunity to win a free copy of a book. In fact, there'll be 10 winners. In the build up, we asked you to give us your questions for him to answer live. But we can still do so now. So don't be shy, you can hit the question parts, the q&a for more questions in for a chance to win a complimentary book. From her. Right we have the out the way let's get down to business and such an amazing experience. have you here today. For anyone that's not familiar, and is a mark combining keynote speaker Best Selling Author of influence, and about 100 Other things, she really does have a wealth of experience in this space. Don't be surprised if anybody here doesn't already know that. Interestingly, as well, she is voted the most influential woman on social media and recognised by Forbes, Forbes fortune as one of the most one of the top women bloggers, she's also Chief Content Officer at MarketingProfs must be particularly busy. It does. Tap into her amazing experience and insight from the best questions we can pick already. But as mentioned, you still have a chance to grow yours it. Specifically we're going to delve into b2b marketing, into b2b demand generation and everything and anything that b2b marketers should know today. Now without any further ado, let's get down to business. And we're gonna get straight into it. First one we had to hear was one of the ingredients to demand generation excellence.
Ann Handley 2:54 Yes, absolutely. So before I answer that, I just want to say hello to everyone. Welcome. I'm I'm honoured to be here with you. And Carlos, thank you for that very generous introduction. Had I known that it was going to go on for as long as it did, I might have just shut off my camera because there's nothing more. There's nothing more difficult than you know sitting there nodding Oh, yeah. Oh, well, your bio is ready. Anyway, so let's talk about demand genuine excellence. You know, I think there are a lot of things that go into go into, into demand gen excellence but I think fundamentally, it comes down to maybe maybe four or five, five things let's talk about five things. So the first thing is I think the the are most excellent at and what I mean by that is they know who they are. And they know why they matter to their customers. So you know, they make their customer the hero of their story. They know what their customer is, is struggling with. They know what motivates. They're their buyers and their users. They tell that story across everything you know, not just on their website where they might have you know, paid an agency a tonne of bucks to to have like a Fantastic, you know, tagline, or, or, or homepage, but they also use that story as the foundation for for everything that they do. So I think that's the first thing. The second thing is I think they support the entire customer journey, you know, very often in in demand gen, we think about only that sort of top of funnel, right. And it's not just about top of funnel acquisition instead, I think for you to really excel at demand generation have systems and processes in place to to nurture prospects before they become customers, of course, but also after the sale, they use it to build loyalty and referrals long term. And that's just, they have a long term view of not just the customer, but of the entire expansion cycle. So it's not just a little piece up here where the customer comes in, and they're like, Great job is done. Instead, they think about it, you know, throughout the entire lifecycle, especially at that, at that referral stage. The third thing is I think that they focus on a seamless customer experience and customer experience is one of those those words that I can, it's a little bit it's a little bit vague, sometimes in a marketing context. But essentially, it means that the experience that you have over here is the same that you have in any other place, on the website on the on your social channels, with sales with marketing, that implies, of course, a lot of collaboration between sales and marketing. It's the same experience when somebody picks up the phone as well as when you get a support, email, any of those things. Like it's all. It's all seamless through that through that customer experience lens. Trying to think that. So I think the fourth thing, fourth of fifth thing is that the executives at your company. Companies show their faces, and I think this is an easy one to miss very often because, you know, you forget how important that human connection. So do your executives show their faces? Like do you turn that camera around and show who you are? I think especially in a post pandemic world, it's so key to building that that trust. So that we that we need as a foundation of business right now. But I think it also feeds into your into your demand generation strategy. Like are you showing your personality? Are you showing who you are? Are you not just talking about what you have, but truly who you are. And I have your story as well. And I think that kind of approach showing your face should cascade throughout the throughout the so called funnel? And then finally, I knew I was going to get to this is the content, right? They have exceptionally valuable content. Like why did I save this for last? Because it is literally the most important thing? Yes, it's very customer centric, it meets the needs of your customers, it is truly valuable. To them. It's it's personalised to some degree. And I know we're going to talk about personalization later. It's also timely, it's reaching them at that, you know, at the right time when they when they really do need it when they will value it most. Secondly, I think experiments a little bit with new content formats. So it does doesn't stick with the tried and true like some of the button there is an email, email always works. There we go. We've email is great. Don't get me wrong. But I think you know, one of the fun things about marketing. And one of the things that I truly love about it is that it's an opportunity to experiment, like sometimes it can feel overwhelming to see all these new channels popping up and all these new opportunities to connect with customers. But honestly, like, that's the best marketing, isn't it? So reserve part of your not just your budget, but your brain for experimentation with some new channels. And then, oh, actually one other thing about content, and then I'll shut up and let you talk, Carlos. But I think you know, building in a sort of feedback loop with your content too. And by that I mean not just looking at the metrics, like your open rates and your response rates and all that kind of stuff. Like yes, that's important. But I think also building an opportunity to literally your customers directly through all of your content, like find those moments, like you know, we're doing it here, right, where you're, you're we're seeing you know, the feedback real real time, like, is there an opportunity with every piece of content we produce to do that everything from an email newsletter to you know, social is an obvious thing. But look for those moments where you can literally hear your customers voices, you can pull them in, and as a result, make them like part of your story. I mean, imagine for example, if this webinar didn't have the chat, and there was like no visibility there, like it's a different experience. So just find those moments to really pull in the voices of your customers. And finally, just have fun Like, marketing is fun, like it just is. And if you're don't think it's fun, then you're really in the wrong in the wrong job. And you're you should just like, I don't know, just just think about maybe something else. So I know that was. Answer but you know, that was a big question.
Carlos Doughty 10:37 I think instinctively, sometimes marketers hear that question on demand generation and go into channels go into tools. And I love that you started with the importance of what's your story? What's that narrative? And then thinking about the concept, because ultimately, the channel performance is only going to be as good as that content strategy. And message you have to tell people. It was really refreshing to have this it looks fantastic. Ann Handley 11:03 Can I just share one other thing with you? And I was thinking after capture, we had a pre call this week, and we talked about some themes that we that we might touch on. And I was thinking about, you know, I should have sent you a slide. But since I didn't send you a slide, what I did, Carlos was I literally drew a slide to to share with the audience. So there we go. Really hard. You can tell them I'm left handed, because I just have no sense. Can you read that? Can you see the results in the last row? Yeah, yes, exactly. So what you're looking at here is a list of b2b companies, my lord, currently. Okay, how's that? Try to be started drinking. result in the last 12 months. This is this is a data from the Content Marketing Institute and MarketingProfs content marketing research study. We've done it every year for the past 12 years. And let me just let me just walk you through this a little bit more reason why I'm sharing it is because I think it's it's significant about what works in 22. And then some of the There we go, some of the broader lessons, there we go, really get good at this, some of the broader lessons that that, that I think we can learn from it, like right at the top here, virtual events and webinars like this one, number number one, of course, that makes sense. In a world where there's very few in person meetings, at least last year, things are starting to obviously open up now. Secondly, research reports, though, third blog posts less than 1000 words, then case studies and videos video for is like 2020 2021. And now, and then long articles. So 3000 words. And the reason why I'm sharing this is because I think it speaks to, it speaks to think of as valuable, right. So you know, virtual events and webinars that are truly that are truly impactful, right, that aren't just sort of, you know, like, it's like, like, lead generation opportunities package that's like, or I should say, webinars package just as lead generation opportunities. But the truly approach it when we have something to share, we want to educate an audience, we want to lift up our audience and offer some solid education to them. So in that research reports, number two like that substantive right, it's not just, you know, a sort of quick poll somewhere instead of research report takes some take some effort, it takes some budget, and it takes some, some some true ingenuity, I think to really think of something but that will or to position a research report is something that will truly work for your, for your company. And then case studies and longer articles. So four of the top six things are all substantive efforts or it's substantive content assets. And so that's what I think is significant about that chat, because it's, it's not just a situation of, you know, putting out a quick blog post here, and it's really thinking about things more holistically, what is our story and how do we tell it in a valuable substantive way? So, so thanks for letting me share this slide, which I drew. I don't know if I mentioned I mentioned that I drew.
Carlos Doughty 14:56 Ground around listening to the customer, I think this is a great example, right? We've, we've architected this content here today is user generated content, these aren't our questions is what the audience wants to hear, which again, is like an opportunity to really personalise and get into what is it that people want to hear from today?
Ann Handley 15:14 Yeah, it's Sorry, I was just gonna say it's going away, right? It's such a simple way to think about like, like, that's what I'm saying with every single asset, you know, find that moment that something is live, you know, something feels fresh, that is there an opportunity to build in that that feedback loop with your customers. And I think that that requires and just just asking yourself that question to a certain mindset, you know, maybe it isn't always possible, but I think in a lot of ways it it is like, I think you surprised yourself, when you think about it, even something very simple, like an email newsletter, for example, someone signs up for your email. So that guy, by the post about you as the screen or you go to the course email newsletter, like you can, you can have an auto like an auto generated response that says like, thanks for signing up, here's what you can expect setting expectations for that relationship. But then also just like engage them in by asking them a very simple question like, why did you sign up? Like, what can I help you with? What do you hope to learn from this newsletter, our company in general, and there is an opportunity to build that in easily using tech or, or not, like, you know, depending on your capabilities, but just like things like that, just look for those moments. And I think that truly will set your personalization apart. But it also makes you more human and accessible. That feedback loop I think really helps you.
Carlos Doughty 17:23 Yeah, definitely. It's got to get this for the right. Jump into the next question. We got some fantastic questions here. Which b2b companies do see run in the most impressive APM or IPX programmes?
Ann Handley 17:38 So I published an email newsletter every other Sunday. And I, I highlight a lot of great work from from b2b companies there. And one of the companies that I highlighted not too long ago is actually a sponsor of this session today. And so I feel a little weird. It's almost like they slipped me a 20. Like, you know, underneath the Zoom table here, they did not I swear, like annually cannot be bought, just so you know. But I so the company is vineyard and vineyard, I think did a fantastic job. But with one of their marketing initiatives. Recently, last June, they launched a documentary, a mini documentary called reconnection, which was about the importance of, you know, connection in a virtual world, of course, 2021 June, you know, we're sort of in the middle of this pandemic. And somebody talked about the importance of video and using video as a way to tell your story. It wasn't about fear in school tech solution, it was just about video. But the reason why I loved it so much was yes, in part the story, but I just also really loved you know, how they how they rolled it out, like how they told that story and how they launched that that programme. Number one, they had a red carpets. That's right, where they invited influencers. In the end, they seeded the audience with influencers who would come to this launch event in which the people who were part of the of the documentary itself, the people they interviewed for the documentary are also there live. And so again, looking for those moments of interactivity, right, it's, it's, it's finding that moment where you have to be there live, or you miss it, and then also allowing the audience to ask questions of the people who were part of the documentary. So yes, the documentary was going to be there was would be there on demand. It still is available on demand, but having that live component that live events, I think made it feel like an event. They also sent out these sort of red carpet boxes to a bunch of influencers and people who they who they key accounts to to Vidyard right. It had things like it felt like a movie premiere box, right? It had like popcorn in it and like candy And then I also love the way that they just as an aside, just the way that they describe Tyler Lazar, who is the CMO at Vidyard, he became like the executive producer, right? So he Yes, he's the CMO, but his his CIG file, like through all of the launch time frame throughout the campaign, he changed his title to, to, to executive producer and stuff I think, made it feel like a very special and unique autograph, but of course you continue to use that as a way to engage their their key account. So I love that I love the way the PBM integrated in the entire programme and I just loved Carlos Doughty 20:58 this command is out Yeah, and I swear I like that Yeah. Underestimate.
Ann Handley 21:38 For forever, we've been doing virtual programmes like virtual events. And one of the big takeaways that we've learned over the years is that if you have you know, like your videos, your webinars, if you have it available on demand Unknown Speaker 22:07 you do try there always has to be some sort of live component, it has to be
Ann Handley 22:18 even in the b2b space for your audience, to trigger. completely paid off like a day and a half, or maybe just a day long events on that piece. But what they did is they created like an event, like an online event with again, these these triggers to action, right, these live components to it. But one of the things that they did, which I absolutely loved is they seemed it right. And you would love this Carlos, just based on on your background there and all of all of your trainers that are better at that. But they created what they call the marketing game day. And as part of that, they had influencers and I was one of the influencers show up to participate in this like game show. And the funnest part of it was that they had identified these keywords that when we answered like, so we they split us up into teams, they would ask us questions to describe something like, like demand generation, like describe demand generation, but you can't use the word like funnel. It's like a secret word you can't use. And so it was just like a crazy, sort of, like fun activity. And so, you know, again, I love that because I think there's a lot of components of that. All the things that I talked about earlier about the most successful demand gen programmes, you know, the feedback loop, and just, you know, approaching it with it with a sense of your personality and so on. But it was also just like, super fun. It was super engaging. And sometimes I think, especially in b2b marketing, we think we have to be so buttoned up and serious, but you know what, like, you can be any guys. Right? Yeah. So anyway, just wanted to mention that one quickly. Another really good one.
Carlos Doughty 24:48 I think it's such a good point. Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons I think our business has grown here is we embrace for example, an NT conference thinking and that means that we must be because we're b2b marketers doesn't mean we can't be more human more, more relaxed. And suddenly people really welcome the opportunity that it doesn't have to be sort of straight laced with conservative and we can have fun with something. Right and switching lanes slightly, let's jump into another one for you. How can you personalise at scale? Not superficially, first name, Flash company, I mean, depersonalization.
Ann Handley 25:27 depersonalization, intriguing. I let me just say that I think there are more personalised you can make your content, the more relevant, it'll feel to your audience. So you should have, you should have some level of personalization, I think in everything you're doing, I think of personalization in two ways. First of all, yes, it is absolutely a tech solution. It allows you to, to, when you when you find the best solution to help you personalise your messages, and your your content, your outreach to your audience, it allows you to go beyond that, like, you know, do your F name, like go beyond just that know, that mail merge or something, which, you know, is is like personalization, one to one readings, it's, it's fine, but it's just not as effective as it could be. I think the the, the holy grail of using personalization is really to understand through your audience's behaviour, and through their preferences and through your own account intelligence. Where are they? At? What stage? Are they ready to hear from you? And at what stage what kind of messages will resonate the most? And so I think that's the, that ultimately is the best approach to think, to think through your personalization to go at it with an understanding that it's not just about hey, F name, we're using that, you know, that fields just to use their name, but but also to personalise the messages that you're sending to the individuals who are part of your ecosystem. So that's how I think about it. So the first way, it's definitely like, it's a technology solution right there. But the second thing is, I actually think it's a human, a human approach as well personalised content means that you have the it feels like it comes from a person that you underscored beautifully, a minute ago, you know, can we create this this sort of emotional connection with our audience? Can we be sort of, you know, transparent, and what's, what's going on here? You know, one of the things that I always tell the people on my team is like, stop sounding like a marketer, you know, when you sit down to write an email, or to put up a social clothes, like, you know, we tend to back off and like, like, type or type our messages like this sound like marketers. Voice. First Draft might sound like a marketer, like God knows mine. My first dress always sound like a winner in the sense that I'm using very, like, you know, Tinder value. That kind of stuff. So I think, you know, make your make your messages and your messaging more human more accessible, more more personalised, and I think that it is absolutely taxation, using your account intelligence, but secondly, also Unknown Speaker 28:19 a more human approach, Ann Handley 28:20 get your voice out there, right with emotion market with emotion, stories that actually feel like Unknown Speaker 28:27 they have a pulse.
Carlos Doughty 28:29 I think it's an important one. Yeah, sometimes you can make it too much about the technology and not about some of those kind of cool marketing skills. I describe it in our famous saved like you wouldn't have found on human how would you actually say this if you explain it to me. We've got another one. This one I'm particularly interested in one piece of career advice that you wish you could go back and have to a 25 year old.
Ann Handley 29:02 Yeah. 25 year old me funny enough, was not even in marketing at the time I was. I was journalist. Yeah, I was working for for the Boston Globe here in Boston, I was writing features, and basically telling stories, which in some ways was a perfect training for my eventual move into marketing. Because, you know, it's the ability to engage an audience through storytelling and to make it relevant to the audience. All of those things I learned as a journalist, as a journalist. I think what I would tell my my 25 year old self and daughter who was 25 And what I tell her is use your voice. I think that we wait until we we feel like we need a certain level of expertise to surface before we do things like this, like be on webinars. Post us on LinkedIn, create a video series have fun on social media. I think it's so important to start early. I waited way too long, I waited until my first book was out in 2010 12 years ago, I published content rules with my good friends at Chapman. And I never really spoke publicly until then I never really created content publicly, which is outrageous to me when I think about it now, like, I wish I'd started so much sooner. And, and I tell my daughter, like don't, you will never feel like you are ready, you know, you just have to do it. And only through doing it, do you become a better communicator, and you grow your confidence, and ultimately, build the community around you. It's only through using your voice that you get those three C's of like, you know, of competence, and community, and ultimately, connection, you know, with, with the people who matter most to you, not just for your business, but for your career. I think it's just you've got to use your voice, you've got to get out.
Carlos Doughty 31:08 That's pretty great advice. Yeah, I took my time before getting on stage before presenting. And I think one of the opportunities in the digital world right now is if you do something that's simulated live, so if you want to have time, you know, it's certainly not quite as stressful to do this. He sat down to chat than to be on stage. But there's also an opportunity right now, if you're listening and hearing that going, Yeah, I should do more is embrace the opportunity that is digital. It's the live part that scares you ease into it, and look at opportunities where you could do something. Presentation.
Ann Handley 31:46 Yeah, I love that. I mean, it's, there's honestly nothing more terrifying really than than being on stage, right? I mean, we are wired to not want to do that we are wired to not want to stand out from the herd. Because that's like when you can get picked off. Right. And so it's that is probably, you know, the most terrifying thing. But I think there are lots of opportunities to just like you said, Carlos like to be on a stage. And so that stage may be like a tick tock series, or it may be just, you know, showing up for an Instagram Live, like instead of the mind spinning. But I think there's lots of opportunities that you can use your voice to get out there. I mean, an email newsletters started email, newsletter, new grow an email list, just get in there. Because I think if you're not creating content, you're not really growing in confidence and ultimately using it your your ability to create those connections with people who ultimately will really help you in your career, and in your in the business for ad sell. So yeah, just just use your voice.
Carlos Doughty 32:44 Especially now, right, we're in the age of disintermediation, and an age of the content greater so even more. One is personally developing your skills, but also it may turn into something much, much bigger, as we're seeing more and more across every single platform. Unknown Speaker 32:58 Yeah, yeah.
Carlos Doughty 33:00 Fantastic. Um, and I'm afraid we are all out of time. I'm, I've actually love listened to your theme. Fantastic. And honestly, I've got a tonne of insights from our chat. But I'm conscious of outside. Do thank you and bid you farewell. But for everybody joining us, don't worry. We haven't run out of time completely. We have got an expert panel, which we'll be bouncing through in one moment. But and thank you so much for joining us today. Unknown Speaker 33:30 Thank you so much. Thank you. My honour. Thank you. I
Carlos Doughty 33:37 just want our panellists join us. A few very quick questions down here. And don't worry, the lovely insights from an will be made available from her research reports. And also, for those saying fantastic. We use webinars, and you're gonna hear more about that shortly. Right. But now I am joined by our fantastic panellists. And when we answer more of your questions, so let me introduce you to Emily Smith, marketing director at spawn 24. And well as we have Marcy Tozi, VP of marketing videos. And finally, we have a Nola belt as Director of Marketing us and mea selling simplifies. Unknown Speaker 34:22 Hi, everyone. Great to be here.
Carlos Doughty 34:26 Really, really excited. So we've got a tonne of questions for you to pick up where I left off. I don't know about you, but there was some fantastic takeaways that we've already been through. Emily, I want to hear from you. You're somewhat of an ABM specialist and even she even gave the example of on 24 and amazing ABM programmes that you've driven. Here we have a question, how should I go about driving engagement and buying For the business to support our abs, abs. I think it's fair to say that not every organisation is perhaps as, as advanced or progressive in their ABM strategy. Clearly 124 is what advice would you give? How can you help people really push that forward?
Emily Smith 35:16 Thanks, Thomas, first of all, fantastic session, and I really enjoyed that. Everyone remotes myself and corner. Yeah, absolutely. So I try not to make this too much about avian masters. I always start with the question of why do you want alright, you know, yes, there's lots of main benefits around the great terms pipeline, sales, marketing collaboration, I would also pull it with the masculine, do you have the resources and headcount budgets for an API programme? Make sure it's all basically aligned. So we imagine that's a nice gas that's investing. And I was going to sort of starting to identify which sort of style masterclass, we know, there are the ones many, one to do Cluster One to One strategic options. And how many is example there about game day, you know, very much wasn't that high resource page, it was a wider scale of 1000s of people. It doesn't have to be strength, that kind of one to one, which often makes people a little bit more challenged, a bit more anxious and having sort of ways to get started. So again, thank you already taken, what's good quality demand generation, we've moved away from spikelet, as lead counsel leads are starting to be the true segmentation. How insight intelligence on content strategy. Unknown Speaker 36:53 And Jen, interesting. Stuff start looking at building proposal of kind of where to start. And if one wants to kind of fix things, I would change that phrase, I've done this maybe three times for different organisations starting from nothing to kind of buy and get buy in and build up to maybe a process. So I always start with question is, what is ADR? And everyone has an idea what kind of idea you might be working with stakeholders that even involve medium programmes? Often I hear salespeople go, Yeah, I know, the, I've got this. And it creates this environment where assumptions, assumptions. So I would start by defining a new organisation. And I would literally document that I would have a one slide socialise as my new things. But it's really to say, this is what is within our company. Then I start to define process, one, two, or three ones, many ones be one to one. And it's really it's really what's different recently, and how internal external insights, it's not just sales nominations, terrible list of accounts. That's, that's for sure. So you do need to have a decision a size of multiple database channels that you can engage. And then we're going to have right to the end. And I'd say, you know, stop thinking about KPIs. And the obvious ones that we go for a marketing report, your pipeline, we want to build a pilot might be quite short, right? We might be looking at three to six, aliens, definitely no. Quick with our strategy. We have two Unknown Speaker 38:59 metrics that you might get mine for a number of new contacts that you might have added. What's the impact on on sales, marketing relationship, qualified opportunities and pipeline that you might know about? Right? Unknown Speaker 39:17 So at least then when you come into kind of ReverbNation, because they didn't come work for us. And so here, we're now here and then start to kind of build out final going to become a project versus probably not a popular voicing for online or the public. Absolutely is worth noting, it helps to scale for regional accounts, that that's not probably the best thing down. So, you know, definitely have your research and know that this is a pilot. This is where we can help today. definitely not something I'd say, you can get started a lot more than needing to kind of
Carlos Doughty 40:14 set yourself up for success and being able to demonstrate progress. And so if you've got, we're going to end up here, we're going to get this revenue. However, we can't wait, the dual cycle is going to be to show value. So let's be clear about these steps. And that these are success. And you're going to see these, those kind of quick wins to get that state Unknown Speaker 40:36 pilot proposal right, you need to show Carlos Doughty 40:43 right, Marcy, over to you. What is your top team, the driving demand generation in 2022. So you've got to give it a silver bullet here. So it's a
Marcy Dobozy 40:57 silver bullet, the marketing silver bullet, we all have that I might have a little bit beyond 2022. I mean, this is connected a lot to what am I talking about? In terms of the sophistication and the shifts that we've seen across our buyers, we know that our buyers are wanting more now than ever to do their own research, to self educate, to have the information they need before they make that connection directly, but the vendors, so my top tip is show, just tell. And the rationale behind this, again, is if you are as a marketer, take a step back and look at most of our websites, most of our marketing tactics, if we're being honest, they tend to be pretty surface level, they tend to be sort of value proposition benefit oriented. And then we jump right to Hey, you want to book a demo? Do you want to talk to a salesperson, you know, the sort of we go right for the guests when really need to get a handshake at that level? So what can we do to make sure that we're providing that high value content that Ann was talking about? And again, this is like right from your inbound strategy, right down to the funnel opportunities, but one that I can highlight that I think does a great job on exemplifying what I'm talking about is take a look for you have a call to action to request a demo? And ask yourself, would we be better serving our customer base by actually showing them a demo? Or why don't we put up a video tour on our website of what our software can do for them. And if you're worried about you know, drop off rage, or how long it could be start with something short, it could be a two minute demo something very, very short. And measure the engagement with that or even take it one step further and give the customer the opportunity because you know, they like yourself correct journey to choose where they go from there, though they enjoyed the two minutes. But now I want to go deeper in you know, maybe the analytics or or I wonder if there's a customer example, associate someone like me that video is sort of let them take through a course to further themselves and sort of oversell further through the journey. So show
Carlos Doughty 43:16 is great. Because it's 24/7. I'm probably a weird buyer, but I might be free looking at something at random time on a Sunday. And so if I can go and find something, someone's not gonna be available to talk. So I'm really, really lucky Unknown Speaker 43:32 to find out. Yeah, when you need it. And again, I think that's always been the case. We're being honest, I think that's really actually always been there. But over the last couple years, has become much more people wanting to do things on their own time on demand is even more important.
Carlos Doughty 43:57 It's the nine to five, so let's not leave you out. We've got questions for you. And really interesting question that you've done, which is almost the same question getting live. So clearly people are very interested in as budgets and resources, resource capacities do vary. Are there recommendations on which areas to prioritise in your martech? Stack?
Anola Balthazar 44:29 Great question. Thank you. So I think the most important thing to keep in mind is your long term objective as a marketer. I'm going to use like, for instance, myself, three main pillars that have to really grow throughout the year. The first one is Legion, which is directly tied to a revenue and are friending some element. So I'm basically going to use this budget and bring on board console says exactly. This, it seems tempting to actually bring on or companies early enough to bring on board and sometimes as well, and you just make the organisation use the angry Unknown Speaker 45:55 copy aspects of the software. And what I mean by that is
Anola Balthazar 46:03 a solution. To give an example a little while was looking at gifting solution we were looking at apart now. So, as we were reviewing the different providers out there and the challenges with IBM campaigns and comparing the different solutions and offers, we realised that you cells want to make sure that we want to keep our customers happy and reward them and train them for the great programmes that we run together. And also HR, right. So, sometimes it's also about thinking about your market in the long term. And you might have a very defined budget, but it might be worthwhile to inject a little bit more money into the implementation of the software, because it might actually benefit you. And you'll grow the company on the long term. And then if I get back more specifically to what we do, some defy, which is kind of demanded and confiscation, I'm going to actually challenge that. And that's what we're saying not all the time, all type of software is needed. And especially when it comes to content distribution. So I think one of the things for us, as people find that has made us keep layering the mundane space, and really change it and entities is the fact that we are software as a service that demand as a service. And that's something that is
Carlos Doughty 47:42 quite different. So
Anola Balthazar 47:45 often in conversations with customers, here that they really appreciate how fast and easy it is to get up and running with the programme. And to get their content, distribution distributed and to start generating leads, organically engaged with their content. And this is something that is really appreciated, because, like, implementing this logic to your operation is is is a method statement where it can be it is costly, it requires, you know, some implementation, some Dev, some training, obviously, to make sure that the changes accordingly, some extensive integration sometimes and updates. So it can be it's really, it's not a decision that you take lightly.
Carlos Doughty 48:35 So Unknown Speaker 48:37 the other thing that's also important
Anola Balthazar 48:39 to prioritising consider is also you have you know, whether or not you get a piece of classical music, provider licence to simplify, then you have the tool to just with your content, and then do you actually have the audience to push this content out to. So that's pretty important to make sure that you can have the content the tool, and then you actually know who you can reach out to, and that whatever solution you use is going to allow you to get that granular level of reporting, or analytics to be able to track things such as, you know, engagement intent to make sure that your content is actually performing. So I guess just to sum up on this, I would say that I would encourage marketer to not necessarily automatically think that software is what they absolutely need. There's other solutions that can be a lot easier to implement, more flexible, and therefore not adapted to budgets and resources capacity at the time.
Carlos Doughty 49:52 I think that's really sound advice. I think, you know, we can all spend a lot of time producing amazing content, we can have amazing technology. But if we don't have the audience distribution, and also to show them the opportunity to kind of take a service that reach and access. The start with what's your business goal? So often people go shiny new toy.
Marcy Dobozy 50:22 And then you can't do because you haven't been a business goal. Well, the business
Anola Balthazar 50:27 aspects. Yeah, absolutely. And there's so much matter out there, it can be. Again, it seems obvious that if your main goal as a mathematician might be can be so easy to like, be attracted to a brand new shiny piece of plastic. So yeah, it's certainly something that you could be.
Carlos Doughty 50:52 Helpful, previous sustainable content strategy?
Emily Smith 50:56 So great question. I feel like content is no longer designed just for a single channel. Now as marketers, yes, we need to serve up content at the right time. And the right case, in the right format, has also become just as critical since we were thinking about how buyers by loan buyers journey. So this journey, so traditional live event format. racy content, however, we did talk about underneath for designing and on demand own strategy. You mentioned yourself your own buying cycle that you go through your own preferences to do research, perhaps on Sunday nights, you know, we're getting more and more. Not every programme we run has no straight line, date and time to pop so. Well, I say be positive for things like, like courses like specifications, not necessary top quality events. Unknown Speaker 52:13 So you
Emily Smith 52:15 only have a live calendar at the moment, you know, definitely think about, if any of your programme being on time. Well, I also consider accessibility really coming here on 24. We've been very cautious out over the last year or more about becoming more accessible, you know, through the pandemic, we saw that southern Alberta event for attracting global multilingual audiences. So therefore, it is really important to start thinking about, you know, which, you know, single content is reaching, and is it accessible? Is there anything you can do to be more aware of that, so, say we want to get squeeze as much bang for a buck out of our content. So, you know, again, we're putting a lot more emphasis that webinar content might be the source of the story, but we are then converting it to blogs, ebooks, resources, even talking to some social videos as well, we get a lot more out of each kind of using contract we have. And particularly when you're using engagement polls, the questions that you guys have coming in today, surveys, all of this enriches them the recipes and columns down a little bit further than the live event, you know, we can start to share stats and results that perhaps weren't documented during that time as well. So definitely ways that you can start to get more from from single activity. And the future of where we're going with this. I really think it's where kind of AI was incepted. Right, we'll definitely start to see recommended content coming up. You know, we were talking earlier about audiences picking their own adventure going on to the next step themselves. But definitely AI is going to help with sort of what's the next recommended content in that content strategy as well.
Carlos Doughty 54:10 Thank you, and you trigger straightaway on that one. One, the repurposing. As we hear, this is a fantastic opportunity to repurpose this into a podcast. I think there's another example where you can just make sure you get maximum reach on this so that people consume it as on when they want in the way they won't. Thank you. Great, great feedback, and Marcy over to help you like b2b content truly.
Marcy Dobozy 54:37 Yeah, before I jump into that one, I just wanted to echo what Emily was saying, I couldn't agree with you more. Anytime you are thinking about your content, think about how it's going to be used across all of the channels over a period of time and it never fails to amaze me how much mileage you can get out. way from building it, the beginning with that in mind, and it doesn't really take that much work. In addition, other than a little bit of pre planning, so highly recommend thinking through where you could use repurpose, cut tweak, add to any piece of content that you're creating part of your strategy to this least most likely event.
Carlos Doughty 55:16 Okay, so how to make b2b
Marcy Dobozy 55:18 content really personal, I think and did a really great job already kind of responding to this question. So I'll I'll try to be a little briefer than maybe I would be normally if I were delivering a monologue on how to make this all happen. But I would agree with and that there's really two categories of personalization, personalization in and of itself is very nuanced, right? Are we talking about it being personalised, identifiably to the recipient, which is sort of how I think about the first category of personalization, which was talking about the very basic, you know, first name, last name and email, which of course, we can go well beyond a lot of our customers use video, obviously, as a tool to reach their customers, they might have user generated video or selfie video of them holding up a sign with the prospects name on it. And so now the prospect is receiving an email with, you know, a human being holding a sign with their name on it with a play button on it, and you're automatically that much more compelled to hit play, because they understand whatever the content of this video, right, so that's a personalization, you can expand that same sort of idea and make it identifiable, you're doing a screen recording of a company's website. So the recipients within that company, and it's got a very BM programme, know that that content is going to be relevant specifically to company, Craig. And more broadly, maybe it's vertical specific and held up her hand drawn charged on the prevalence or the impact of things might report. So maybe you have a an industry wide record that you want to share out with a vertical specific portion of your audience, maybe it's financial services, well, you could create a, you know, a highlight reel, specifically for the financial services. audience base and include that as as as a means to make it relevant. And for the audience to know that specifically, what they're going to see has been pulled out for them directly. So that's kind of the one is identifiable. And then the second major piece is that triggered or action based, that Ann was talking about. So expected behaviour, maybe you sign up for an event, and now you're going to be you know, she was happy? Well, you're going to receive an email talking about specifically what you're going to get out of the event. And I think it's the combination of those two things, plus, maybe some human faces involved in there. And we were also talking about the authenticity of seeing your, the founders or the President's face, we see that being very powerful across much of our content now that user generated content from our customers from ourselves, from, you know, our community in general, which is just simply recording using the tools you already have. I think one of the major shifts that we've seen as a result of the pandemic for good or for bad is that we've all become pretty comfortable on camera. Now we are used to looking at ourselves all day and hearing ourselves all day. Again, whether good or bad, I think that's resulted in a really massive increase of this user generated type, more authentic and raw and maybe less polished content that used to exist. And that's, that's, that's this other level of personalization, where it's from a human to human and making that additional connection. So when you put the visibly identifiable piece from a human based on information, either through AI or actual behaviours from your prospect altogether, that's where the real magic happens in civilization.
Carlos Doughty 58:49 We we've seen in our business, we've seen a lot of success on them on video, personalization, they have the ability to not have to record 100 videos that are literally for that individual and to be able to scale something like a solution of yours. I think we as marketers appreciate it. It definitely has. Right, we are back to you and Ola is the question we've got lined up. In fact, actually, you know what, we're going to take a live one here. Because I think the best answer to this, can you share with us the power of access to clean unqualified first party data when generating leads? Because I think it's sometimes underappreciated. You know, lead generation demand generation is underpinned by amazing clean data. You talk to us a little bit about that cyclists. Anola Balthazar 59:40 Yeah, that's the starting point of anything really. Being able to work with clean first party data that's becoming more and more important. And I think you know, whenever Don't you have your own sets of data or you work with a provider, you need to make sure that there is a, like, you need to make sure that there's a transparent communication, especially with your provider. So we're obviously, you know, we've got to put it out at 100 Holiday testimony into the record. So that's, that's what we do, basically, the first time that has been creating and running programmes for our customers using this this value data, it is, it just makes a difference. Because we actually know, the people that we engage with, we understand what they their interest, and we no matter what pain points challenges they're facing in their industry, and as a result, we're able to come up with programmes and content, that is responding to the challenges to those needs, that are addressing the same points, and really start in meaningful b2b engagement with those leads. So we had a little while back, actually a campaign that was out that was all around stories, not leads, and to explain exactly this, this idea that, you know, with with, you have to work with good and clean data to be able to understand more like good pastures, the need, as you know, of your prospects, are they actually real people with real challenges and, and real quick, real intent. And this is where you say it is extremely crucial. So
Carlos Doughty 1:01:33 it goes back to the point you were making earlier, you know, if you have amazing content, but don't have the distribution, because you haven't got access to not just data but clean, accessible data. So I think exactly. Anola Balthazar 1:01:45 Understand this. Well, by having that person data, you actually, as I was saying, you actually they become they become contact, if you actually know who those people are. And therefore, you know, when you're with them afterwards, there's there's an actual, meaningful, there was no engagement made, that couldn't happen. And that goes back to some of the things that were around, you know, the personalised, being personable as well, I think there's a real shift that is happening more and more in the b2b world, to the marketing world is that brands really, really have to go that extra mile, you know, to make sure that they understand who they're talking to, it's no longer acceptable to receive an email that just, you know, doesn't even one that doesn't even say your name. That's a big no, no, but then yeah, like that just completely misses the mark, in terms of like, work in the industry, you work in what you're trying to achieve. So yeah, very, very.
Carlos Doughty 1:02:49 Emily, we are back with you. But I'm gonna say this is a brilliant question. Was that for the front end? So bear with me? Okay. How do we wade through all of the digital noise at the moment? So that our key messages land with our audiences? Are there any absolute no no's? Or are there any, if you're not doing this, you have to be? In other words, should we be moving back to sending stuff in the post? Should we be delivering really intuitive online events, or just hoping for the best? I work in a in a complex business that delivers a number of services? So sometimes, I'm even competing with myself to be heard? Sounds like this marketers got quite the challenge on their hands at the moment. Yeah.
Emily Smith 1:03:30 Absolutely. And, I mean, I've said this before, I feel like we're living in a world where attention is now current, right? There is competition for attention, a business. problem for us. Patience has risen, we expect higher quality TV, Netflix experience between processing. And well, we do expect these more greeting more real. More, more, more now. Now now real time access to everything. Yeah. How do you break through the noise? I heard a little bit in there about referring to digital mail, gifting. Absolutely fantastic. Whether it's a game strategy, or why did they wait on 24 starting to use that actually within actual pipeline as well, which is, you know, not just kind of cold, that kind of supporting deal philosophies. So Unknown Speaker 1:04:35 yeah, we've definitely Emily Smith 1:04:37 seen direct mail but perhaps not as scalable and cost effective way to digitalize. What I'm trying to say is that there is a one hit wonder, unfortunately, with my experience in life, you know, there needs to be a greater importance of going back to camp Your mind will full multitaction formatting and showing how aligning was aligned to the buyers journey. So, yeah, experienced before, we have definitely started to increase the module real rich experiences offered our hands up now we can very comfortable and reliant on that, given the live pre recorded content strategy, particularly when it's super busy during the pandemic, but we're seeing craving or is the request the comeback by the nose as we are here these days and loved by questions, we want you to engage in contact. And really, this is a better experience, not only for us as marketers, you know the amount of data. It's no longer a did you read the digital card? How long did you stay for when you lose you? What did you engage with? So yeah, I don't know if I got through to all of them. But if I had one summary points, we definitely think there isn't a legit one, right? Because we will be starting very small, very true.
Carlos Doughty 1:06:05 I'm funny enough, actually, we, we were working on a campaign operations on the channel canvas, the clean sheet. So run a training programme, because it is such a challenge because more and more channels and more content, more messages. It's it's it's tough to navigate to weave through to try and work out. What should I be doing even at the planning stage. And I think sometimes we will jump in to the channels, perhaps before there's enough planning in the background or simulation base. But yeah, equally, I think it makes marketing a bit more exciting at the moment too, right. So we've got wide rounds of channels, data and content as well.
Emily Smith 1:06:44 I think that's when I started my career, there wasn't one of you is responsible for digital marketing, and somebody who is responsible for webinar marketing, event marketing, and kind of one of my pet peeves really is actually you know, we all need to be digital marketers and spend a living, you know, we all need to have that full, rounded experience. I don't think anyone has a specialism in digital marketing anymore.
Carlos Doughty 1:07:14 I'll fess up and say some of the channels I used to write but we did some work with emerging markets and its effects can do crazy stuff, but it works as well as direct mail. Fax campaigning was particularly special. Anyway. Yeah,
Marcy Dobozy 1:07:40 that's a great question. I think we've touched on quite a few of them already. Emily, I totally agree it's omni channel, you have to be where your buyer is, when they're ready to engage, we need to make sure that that means that the content that we're delivering isn't the format that they want to get to be. So is it on demand is alive, we also for what it's worth have been having great success with live events over the last few years, we were concerned that at some point it was going to drop off. But if it hasn't, it's continuing to grow. I think we're all really seeing the value of being able to be in so many places and learn about so many things virtually in these environments, it's, it's much easier for the works at the end also. So it's from my perspective, it's the combined power of the on demand content, the live content, hyper personalization, that we have the ability to do either at scale or one to one with, you know, really highly valuable highly educational content also, to equip that buyer to move through the journey that's going to continue to create the most engaging approach. One of the, one of the interesting things and I know a lot of marketing organisations do have responsibility over SDRs and PDRs. That part of the inbound funnel that we have seen coming out of this is a real growth in video selling or virtual selling. So if you think about the last couple years, people have been around there's travel. To do so people, sales organisations have adopted a lot of virtual tools to better reach and better connect with engage with their prospects and our customers. And if you think about on the one hand, we already know that fire for this anyway, right now. It's actually the buyer journey as the way that they wanted it to be all along, but it's actually being delivered better to them. And on the other hand, we're seeing sales organisations having really positive results from this switch to virtual selling through the increasing customer engagement at the same time as they're reducing the costs of each of those customer interactions because, you know, they can reach to the bandwidth and serve and help so many more of their customers in a week than they could if they're getting on a plane and how long that takes sitting in airports and the travel and know just the expansion of what they're capable of doing. Unknown Speaker 1:09:57 I think that, you know,
Marcy Dobozy 1:09:58 the research that we've seen coming out of over the pandemic has also also indicated that it's unlikely that much of that is going to revert back like there's too many games on both sides for us to revert back to the the world that we had prior. So it's, it's interesting the the growth of user generated content instead of age and creator, it's a real merging of the b2c and b2b at the same time as the digital tools have allowed us and have actually made us more comfortable with platforms that we might have been a little shy to a document.
Carlos Doughty 1:10:33 Personally, I've been, I've been impressed by video meets social selling. And I think his videos actually the next integration where somebody slid into the LinkedIn, not another one for actually taking the first by respect, the research, the fact that you realise I've got a nice, and I've seen that was a nice touch. Right, and I worked because I could see particularly interested in operations. So the question here is, do you see marketing operations skills as a central or demand generation leaders now and in the future?
Anola Balthazar 1:11:20 I think we could literally have like a whole hour. Yeah, I was actually no longer than last week talking about marketing operations with our CMO. And we were saying that now more than ever, it's like disposition within the organisation, this function has never been an important. And I think to me, that is literally like the oil that like lubricate the whole like clubs of the marketing engine, campaign planning, programme, rollouts, malpeque deployment, and obviously, sorting the data and making sure that it blows through those, all those components. So it really is at the heart of any successful marketing organisation, from internal processes, but also the support campaigns, I think it's actually essential for dementia leaders. We all rely on data to generate leads for our business. And we use a variety of different channels, nurturing strategies to do that. So basically, the data has to flow from one programme to the other, what sometimes comes in from one platform to the other, then gets into one into the other depending on where your buyer is, in their funnel, how ready they are to engage with you how complex as well and extensive Angel nurturing dirty, so you have got to have a guardian, overlooking the whole process, what's happening, making sure that everything is optimised flowed seamlessly to reducing the mix. Because that can happen a lot from one stage to the other, I think any marketer can relate to this. You've got you know, you enter in that level, and the programme is extended to the other end. So it's, it's crucial. And just to give a very concrete example, last month, last month, I got acquired by foundry. I don't know if you guys already pretty seamless. intent data on every other another, more to the table. First time database database, we have also a contract mutation solution. I think when you look at it like that, is it you understand the strategic move behind, you know, acquiring businesses and making them become one entity. But obviously, operations is such a crucial role to make sure that we fully integrate together seamlessly that we come up with a compelling commercial solution, but also, internally, we have the tools in place and the place because we are marketers, marketing to market. So we use our own tools to fill our pipeline. And we're going to use the tools to also you know, so we need to make sure that there is that it's seamless process that's happening for all of us. And obviously that, on the other end comes out as a very compelling commercial solution. So ensure that you enter the question. Yes, it is crucial
Carlos Doughty 1:15:08 for the leaders. To agree more. You know, I think there's also there's a shortage of amazing mountain ops people. Interestingly, on our training course, around the essentials, marketing ops, we go into data, hygiene data sourcing campaign operations, and it is it the difference between your sort of marketing maturity is often the less sexy stuff the stuff in the backend is like your data process flow? Is it real time leads being into the sales team instantly? Or is it uploaded manually A week later, and clearly, the call and the follow up is not as effective as it shouldn't be. So yeah, it can be an underappreciated and recognised part of the success or failure of the manager. Absolutely.
Anola Balthazar 1:15:55 Because it's just, it's fine to see like this, the orchestration of all of that, to make sure that the outcomes amazing and great, it takes a village to make sure that you know, on your, on your decks, you know, a lot to make sure that as you said, everything flows seamlessly and that all processes are aligned. And cheese as well are aligned. Absolutely.
Carlos Doughty 1:16:15 Right. We've got time for one more question, but I'm gonna throw the same question to all of you because I think it's a great one. Let's get the crystal ball out. Let's talk about the future. What is the one area of change the most? What's gonna change most?
Emily Smith 1:16:41 Not behind us, right? We have seen around people all my most attractive. Great to see from fantastic examples. But we also saw some terrible examples, and terrible experiences. Most of us know nonverbal communication, we're no longer talking gets inside, the value really, within the engagement, being able to connect buyers with audiences, and audiences with each other. And say, this really shouldn't be that anyone feels isolated or lonely state or isolated things going on involved in questions, and we will reach out to our current state. But it's really nice to connect experiences. I may have mentioned earlier, you know, data is no longer just around. Now, we can really started to analyse all of these engagement touch points and accelerate the sales buyers journey and get your case to the right place the right time. So yeah, underpinning technology behind this drive, a better audience workstations. Having a digital experience platform that transcends both events, and really called out content and content behind all of that, I think that really is the creation is wanting to reach.
Carlos Doughty 1:18:13 Can I say that though? The shiny word of metaverse. into the ground or.
Emily Smith 1:18:36 Me, that was definitely something that I'm personally intrigued in investors. I'm not quite sure if it really is the case that these devices purchase, but I'm
Marcy Dobozy 1:18:55 from you, what are your thoughts? Thinking. I think the marketing view and maybe the whole company view the whole auto market view on the funnel. And the role that marketing plays are moving on through that funnel is shifting now. It's going to continue to shift a lot over the next five years. Actually, I thought Emily, you were gonna say that. So I'm glad I could say that we're going to go down this path. I think that we have realised that you know, while super powerful and we need it as a high indication of engagement is really only useful for us to know what the next marketing touch should be. I think in the past, we've used it intense data as a lead qualification and then we pass it over to sales. And I think we will realise that, in fact, the only moment we should be passing anything over to sales is when we get people to handwrite like when we get them to self select and say Okay, I'm ready now. So I think the marketers job will be To create hand raisers, and obviously the opportunity to raise, but less so about lead scoring and intent data in order to provide lead sales and get them to actually raise their hands. And as a part of this, I think we move away from the individual lead funnel as we know it today and start to focus much more holistically on the account funnel. Because ultimately, that b2b buyers tend to buy right, it's usually more than one human being that is involved in that buying decision within an account. And when you think about that, it seems a little silly to be tracking individuals, when you should be zooming out and looking at the to like on the accounts, what sort of usage are they having with your product? How are they interacting with your content? Where are they acting, who's interacting all of that information. And I think as a result of that, we're going to see our good marketing, expand well beyond just traditional sales and marketing, and looking at the beginning, necessarily become simple marketing and includes the action product or to go to market everywhere.
Carlos Doughty 1:21:02 takes minutes. I really like being used more by marketers. This is to help offset personalization days ahead of ourselves. Let's see more from you. What are your thoughts? What's playing out? What do you see in the next three to five?
Anola Balthazar 1:21:36 Yeah, just just on that sort of thing. But I do agree as well, like it's, it's really led to whether we needed to actually really use red cap up creates that story. Instead of like, like, just passing it passively. So with its video coming through five years, I think personalization. I think it's a purchase from a brand that provides personalised experience. And I truly believe that brands continue their efforts into a personalised experience, but also experience in general. I think we witnessed a really big shift and just going to continue to increase, interviewed brands leveraging Texas' and approaches opportunity to see world. I think Emily, you said something very similar. But both said that experiences are the new social currency. And this is so true. And I also believe that it's a really good way to illustrate how eager people are for brands, b2b brands and b2b brands to personalise personable level. So there's actually there's a whole section on this in one of our on the platform and encourage the audience to do. And I think the last thing that I would say relationship between data. And what I mean by that is, all the points that I've talked about before won't be possible if markers aren't nuclear data, and if the economy if the economy is currently very into a weakness split between players selling real signals that are related. And I sincerely believe into what's going to make it to be markedly more meaningful, personable and engage community.
Carlos Doughty 1:24:30 Fantastic, well, so much to take away and unpack from today. Thank you so much. To all three of you. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've personally learned a tonne, and I'm sure our audience had to. So thank you very much for joining us and being anti con. Alex. For our audience, thank you for your time. Thank you for joining but also do come back. We've, we've got more amazing timing anticolonial X, global will take place first of July in London. And in fact, we'll probably have a chance to meet some of the people you've seen here today, I think and only you're going to be there, Emily? Maybe Marcy, I'm not sure if maybe someone from the video team. And we've also got some other great dialogue events coming together in the next few months, including an amazing event with Scott Galloway. Oh, and one other thing I didn't mention just the name for other great speakers coming. Steven Bartlett will be keynoting our events in London. So if that wasn't enough, we've got more greater than that. Thank you so much. Today is an absolute pleasure. And I look forward to chatting again very soon. Thank you. Thank You